電影《敦克爾克》的熱度還在持續升溫， 豆瓣閱讀也和電影同步上架了電影官方歷史顧問、歷史學家 Joshua Levine（約書亞·萊文）重述敦克爾克往事的 Dunkirk:The History Behind the Major Motion Picture（《敦克爾克：電影背後的歷史》），
接下來你將看到一場豆瓣閱讀、諾蘭、萊文和幾位元電影主創的對話， 內容關於電影和電影背後的真實歷史。 問題是我們看完電影后最想知道的， 回答全部摘選並編譯自萊文的這本書， 所以這其實是一場虛擬對話。 但相信它一定可以滿足你看完電影后滿滿的求知欲。
《敦克爾克》歷史顧問約書亞·萊文在敦克爾克紀念碑前
在籌備電影的早期階段， 諾蘭就從萊文的 Forgotten Voices of Dunkirk一書， 也是現在這本書的初版中獲得了很多資訊。 因此聘請他做電影的歷史顧問， 和他一起走訪了很多敦克爾克撤退的親歷者， 並邀請他來到電影拍攝現場一起工作。
《敦克爾克》不是一部傳統意義的戰爭片， 這本原著也不是一本傳統意義的“歷史書”。
《敦克爾克》裡沒有其他戰爭片中的歷史和戰爭形勢介紹， 沒有出現敵人， 也沒有出現作戰指揮室， 很多在看片之前認真學習了相關歷史的諾蘭鐵粉發現查閱的資料都沒用上。 看懂本片只需要掌握幾個基本歷史知識點就夠了：
1940年5月， 英法聯軍防線在德國的攻勢下崩潰， 在法國南部的敦克爾克進行了大規模軍事撤退行動；最終撤退人數將近34萬人（聯軍總數約40萬人）， 是原計劃的10倍多， 這要歸功於無數英勇協助撤退的平民船隻；這次撤退行動雖然不是一場勝利的戰役， 但是沒有投降， 為日後的重新反擊保存下了兵力， 因此是一次壯舉， 被認為是二戰意義重大的轉捩點。
諾蘭沒打算上歷史課， 萊文也同樣， 他寫這本書， 只是想將諾蘭在電影裡沒有講完的故事講完。 在電影裡， 每個人的故事都是個謎， 他們沒有談話， 他們的衣兜裡沒有放著遠方戀人的照片。 但是在這本書裡有你想知道的一切：他們都是誰， 在撤退中經歷了什麼，
豆瓣閱讀：為什麼電影一開始湯米一直在找地方上廁所？
萊文：沒有經歷過戰爭的人可能無法想像， 我們規律（或者不規律）的內需在戰爭中會引發多少麻煩。 我們採訪的戰士裡， 有些人會把驕傲暫放一邊， 給我們講他們在撤退的那幾天是怎麼上廁所的。 不過也有人非常激動地說， 因為大家都好幾天沒吃東西了， 所以也就沒有上廁所的需要。
諾蘭：和這些卓越的戰士的對話給了我們很多信心， 因為我們想在電影中展現的東西， 和他們的親身經歷是遙相呼應的。 比如有一個小夥子向敦克爾克運送水， 這意味著他要中途下船，
影片開始的湯米，本打算上廁所，但不得不忙於逃跑
JL = Joshua Levine
CN = Christopher Nolan
JL: A regular (or irregular) occurrence that often caused problems. Some veterans will set aside their pride and tell you how they went to the toilet. But another told me vehemently that nobody had eaten anything for days, so there was absolutely no need for anybody to do so.
CN: A lot of what I got from the conversations with those amazing people was confidence that things that we were intending to do were supported by people’s experience. The chap bringing water to Dunkirk, which meant getting off the boat and then not being able to get back on the same boat. And also with that chap who, although he wasn’t a civilian, he’d come over from England to supply water – one of the things that fascinates me is the mechanics. This is why Tommy is trying to go to the loo at the beginning, because those things are interesting; the logistical things. Where are you going to get food from? Water?
豆瓣閱讀：沙灘上的泡沫很壯觀，這是刻意營造的視覺效果嗎？
萊文：南森（電影的美術指導）記得有一天，泡沫出現在了沙灘上。“就像是《日瓦戈醫生》或者類似的電影場景，這些人踏著泡沫走了過來。”抓住這些無法預料的時刻，是拍電影很重要的一部分。
南森（美術指導）：這就是我們想展現敦克爾克故事的方式。整個事件就是一場見機行事，一場有組織的混亂。那麼多情況在同時發生，那麼多彼此獨立的事件，沙灘上有那麼多人，而每個人都有自己眼中不同的敦克爾克。就是這麼一場事件！電影是要讓觀眾通過視覺的方式投入其中，而不是坐在其外觀看。諾蘭的腦中一直有這些想法，而我就是要來幫他把這些想法全部視覺化——這就是我前六個月的工作。
電影美術在沙灘上的泡沫上下了很大功夫
JL: Nathan remembers that one day, foam suddenly appeared on the beach. ‘It was like Doctor Zhivago or something, these guys walking through this foam.’ Utilising such unforeseen moments was all part of making the film.
Nathan: To us, this was how we wanted to tell the Dunkirk stories. The event itself was all about improvisation, organised chaos. There were so many different things happening, so many individual events, there are as many versions of Dunkirk as there were men on the beach – it was such an event! The film is all about being thrown into this event visually, not sitting outside it. Chris has these concepts in his mind, then I come in and just help him visualise the whole thing – that’s my job in the first six months.
豆瓣閱讀：這是一部戰爭片，但為什麼片中始終沒有出現敵人？
諾蘭：敦克爾克的故事不是一個關於勝利的故事，這不是一場戰役，這是一次撤退。所以我不覺得它是一個戰爭片，我把它看做一個求生的故事。因此片中沒有出現德國人，而且整部電影完全是從如何險中求生的視角拍攝的，而不是著眼於事件中的戰略權術。
萊文：面目不清的敵人才會是你想像中最深的夢魘，才會真的嚇壞你。這部電影幾乎可以算是個驚悚片，類似心理驚悚片這樣的？
萊文：諾蘭認為，沙灘上的士兵和敵人是沒有直接接觸的，他想把這在片中展現出來。
尼祿（電影助理導演）：這也是戰爭中的真實體驗。我們和老兵們聊過後發現，他們其實沒有見過敵人。一方面，當有人朝你射擊，你不會抬起頭盯著他看！你只會躲進洞裡藏好。這是種很恐怖的經歷。從另一方面說，我認為展現死亡就夠了，死亡，還有求生——這種最簡單直接的努力。
萊文：對於諾蘭來說，不讓敵人露面，還可以讓電影中的事件不再和地緣政治相關——而是成為了一個跨越時空的人類求生的故事。士兵其實並不真的明白自己在經歷什麼，而觀眾也不明白，這樣恐懼對他們來說就是一樣的。
諾蘭：如果你一直在拍德國人，德國將軍在房間裡討論戰略什麼的，你就掀開了面紗。觀眾知道的就比電影中的士兵多了。事實上，士兵們在水裡站成一排只是因為他們看到別人也這麼做，而不是因為他們知道有船來了。我認為這才是最精彩的，也是最可怕的。
CN: The story is that it’s not a victory, it’s not a battle. It’s an evacuation. So I don’t see it as a war film. I see it as a survival story. That’s why we don’t see the Germans in the film and why it’s approached from the point of view of the pure mechanics of survival rather than the politics of the event.
JL: This faceless enemy which is the nightmare of your imagination, it’s whatever terrifies you. And the film is almost a horror film, or a psychological horror film, or something like that?
JL: Chris understood that there was no personal contact between the soldiers on the beach and the enemy, and he wanted to reflect this in the film.
Nilo Otero: That is the way war is experienced. When you talk to old soldiers – they didn’t see the enemy. For one thing, when somebody’s shooting at you, you don’t stick your head up and look! You get in a hole and you stay there. It’s a frightening experience. I think that revelation of mortality is really what the picture’s about. That, and the simple effort to avoid dying.
JL: For Chris, making the threat faceless frees the event from its geopolitical ramifications – it becomes a timeless story of human survival. The soldiers cannot understand their own predicament, and the audience experiences the same horror.
CN: If you’re continually showing the Germans as Germans and generals in rooms talking about strategy, you are lifting the veil. The audience would then be more informed than the soldiers. People standing in lines in the water because they see other people doing it, not because they know there is a boat coming. I think that is fascinating and frightening.
豆瓣閱讀：有一個鏡頭是，他們在沙灘上看到另一個士兵在向海的深處走去，他是在做什麼？
萊文：現實中，很多人自殺了。他們走向水裡，然後就真的這樣做了……他們精疲力盡，無法再振作。這件事我始終揮之不去。
萊文：這件事也是電影中那個場景的來源，給電影帶來了如此令人震撼的一幕。很多士兵都表示確實看到了這一幕。“他們被巨大的壓力壓垮了，沒有誰能幫他們。”
萊文：也有一些例外，人們發現有些人其實是一直遊了下去。在近海的一艘救生船上，有人發現一名士兵正在向英格蘭遊去，而且攜帶著大部分武器。看到救生船，士兵大聲求助。但是船長拒絕了，因為折返會讓船上的每個人都面臨危險。這名士兵只能聽天由命了。
諾蘭：當我看著電影中這個人走到水裡的場景，我其實不知道他在幹什麼，他是想自殺？還是覺得自己可以遊過去？不過我之所以不知道，是因為我當時還問了跟我們講這個故事的士兵，“他是不是想自殺？”士兵說他不知道。他只是看到了這個畫面。
萊文：你說這個人他自己又真的知道自己在幹什麼嗎？
諾蘭：說真的，我不知道。
面對著大海的士兵們
JL: So many of them committed suicide. They walked into the water. And they just did it . . . They were exhausted and demoralised. It’s with me now for ever.
JL: This story painted such a striking image that it served as some inspiration for a scene in the film. And it is a story confirmed by others. ‘They were under terrific strain, and one couldn’t do anything for them.’
JL: Sometimes these men were seen swimming far out to sea. On board a lifeboat offshore, troops spotted a fellow soldier swimming towards England with most of his heavy gear still on. Seeing the lifeboat, the soldier started shouting for help. But the skipper refused. Turning back, he said, would have risked the lives of everyone on board. The soldier was left to his fate.
CN: When I look at the scene where they watch the guy walk into the water, I don’t know what that guy’s doing, whether he’s killing himself or whether he thinks he can actually swim out. But the reason I don’t know is because I think I even asked him [the veteran] ‘Was he killing himself?’ and he didn’t have an answer. This was a direct thing he had seen.
JL: Did the man himself even know what he was doing?
CN: I don’t know. Exactly.
豆瓣閱讀：小船們齊刷刷出現的一幕讓人熱淚盈眶，在真實的歷史中，船員都是什麼人？
萊文：埃爾文號很有代表性。退休的海軍上尉阿齊·布坎南響應號召，來到薩克福的一個造船廠。他成為了機動遊艇埃爾文號的船長，而且有了兩名船員，一名是退休的漁夫，另一名是一位航海短篇小說作家。
不過官方一直吞吞吐吐不給他們指派任務，因為覺得他們的船太慢，船員又缺乏經驗。布坎南和船員很沮喪，不過最終他們還是出發了。
雖然路上引擎壞了一陣子，埃爾文號還是在週一一早抵達了防波堤。當時敦克爾克滯留的大多數士兵是法國人，一個人用法語問他“船可以裝多少人？”他知道對方問的是什麼，但他不會用法語說25，只會說30，所以他就回答“30人！”就這樣，他的小船超載了。
布坎南本想著可以在回去的路上往其他船上挪幾個人，但是他的船太慢了，其他船早就開遠了。而且遠離大部隊，他們也不知道已經排雷的航道在哪裡。但是他們的船吃水只有三英尺六英寸，水位又低，所以覺得不太可能觸雷。他們最後載著25個法國人和8個英國人成功抵達，小小的埃爾文號也完成了自己的使命。
喬治的身上有很多真實的船員的影子，他們非常年輕，毫無航海經驗，但義無反顧踏上了征途
JL: In answer, retired lieutenant commander Archie Buchanan showed up at a Suffolk boatyard, where he was given command of the motor yacht Elvin and a crew comprising a retired fisherman and an author of maritime short stories.
According to the authorities, Elvin was too slow to make the trip, and her crew too inexperienced to be trusted. By now, Buchanan and his crew were so frustrated with the treatment they were receiving that they set off anyway.
Despite a brief engine failure during the journey, Elvin came alongside the mole early on Monday morning. By this time, the majority of soldiers remaining in Dunkirk were French, and a poilu called out, ‘Combien de soldats?’
Buchanan understood what the soldier was asking. How many men could come on board? And while he did not know the French word for twenty-five, he did know the word for thirty. ‘Trente!’ he shouted. Elvin duly filled up with too many soldiers.
Buchanan was hoping to transfer the soldiers to another ship on the way home, but Elvin was moving so slowly that all the other ships pulled away from her. ‘We had no idea where the swept channel was,’ Buchanan remembers, ‘but as we drew only three feet six inches and it was not low water we didn’t think that there was much danger from mines.’ Arriving safely back in Ramsgate with twenty-five French and eight British soldiers on board, it can be said with confidence that Elvin had done her duty.
豆瓣閱讀：電影裡的角色都只是想方設法自保，沒有任何“英雄主義的光環”，而且最後覺得自己當了逃兵很羞愧，真實的人物也是這麼看自己的嗎？
萊文：我記得有一個人說，“那種情況下你也只能顧得上擔心自己。”
諾蘭：對，在我看來他是咱們交談過的最有意思的人之一。他的話裡透露的意思是他經歷的這些事他自己是不覺得光榮的，但是他很肯定普通人遇到這種情況都會這樣。給我感覺他的意思不是他做錯了或者這件事有什麼特別之處，而是，我們就不要再談它了 ，就讓它過去吧。對我來說，亞曆克斯、湯米和吉布森（電影中的三個主角士兵）之間的種種關係就是這樣的含義。我們沒有想對任何人做評判。但是這讓我感到有一扇窗戶打開了，通向人們各自深埋心中一直秘而不談的過往經歷。
亞曆克斯、湯米和吉布森
JL: I remember one said, ‘You were only worried about yourself.’
CN: Yes. I think he was one of the most interesting people to talk to. What he implied to us was that he’d gone through a set of experiences of which he was not proud, but which he firmly felt were in the norm of that situation for the people that were there. I felt that he wasn’t in any way saying he had done anything wrong or different, but that there were things which shouldn’t be talked about, which were best left there. And for me the whole relationship between Alex and Tommy and Gibson was that moment. It’s not meant to be judgemental of people. I felt that there was a window which opened up on to the privacy of that subjective experience.
豆瓣閱讀：但是他們回到英國後受到了英雄般的禮遇，這是一種藝術加工，還是真實的情況？
萊文：是真實的。大多數英國士兵都覺得自己遭受了嚴重失敗，覺得自己愧對祖國。但是等待他們的是一場大驚喜。
安東尼（親歷士兵）回憶說他本來正忙著自己的事，但是突然有一個陌生人往他手裡塞錢。“小夥子們，幹得好！”當上尉吉伯特的火車開過，女性志願服務隊的人喊道。士兵的車廂堆滿了從車窗送進來的桔子和香煙。還有人抬頭看到大樓側面粉刷著“歡迎敦克爾克的英雄們！”
民眾對於大撤退的態度，既不是故作善意，也不是被人強迫。其實就是在這個時刻松了口氣，是一種很自然的表露。因為朋友們和親人們都安然無恙，而戰爭還會繼續下去。
當然邱吉爾也對這種情緒的注入起了很大作用。在對國會講話時說，他承認撤退不可能迎來勝利，但是撤退卻取得了“營救的奇跡”。
JL: The vast majority of returning British troops understood that they had suffered a terrible defeat. Many felt that they had shamed their country. But a surprise was in store for those who felt this way.
Anthony Rhodes was minding his own business when a complete stranger pressed money into his hand. ‘Well done, you lot! Jolly good job!’ shouted members of the Women’s Voluntary Service as Captain Gilbert White’s train passed by. Oranges and cigarettes were shoved through the carriage window at Private William Ridley. At one point he looked up to see ‘Welcome to the Dunkirk Heroes’ painted on the side of a building.
Yet the public reaction to the evacuation, was neither contrived nor imposed. It was a spontaneous demonstration of relief. Friends and relatives were safe, and the war was going to continue.
This was the mood that Winston Churchill tapped into so effectively when, speaking to the House of Commons, he admitted that wars might not be won by evacuations, but that ‘a miracle of deliverance’ had been achieved.
戰士們在家鄉受到了英雄的禮遇
豆瓣閱讀：在親歷敦克爾克大撤退的士兵看來，什麼是“敦克爾克精神”？
諾蘭：我覺得當你（指萊文）問他們如何理解“敦克爾克精神”的時候很有信息量，因為他們每個人的理解都和別人不一樣。我記得有三個很有代表性的理解。一個是說那些小船代表了敦克爾克精神。另一個是說，我不太記得具體措辭了，但就是他覺得“敦克爾克精神”什麼的都是扯淡。而我們採訪的最後一個士兵，他認為最後留下駐守的人是具有“敦克爾克精神”的。他們每個人都對自己的理解非常肯定：這就是我的理解，這就是它的意義。
CN: I think it was very informative asking as you did what their interpretation of the Dunkirk spirit was, because there were such different interpretations. Three very distinct interpretations, as I remember. One was the little ships representing the idea of the Dunkirk spirit. Another was, I can’t remember the words he used, but he basically said it was complete bullshit. And then the last chap we were talking to, he related it to the people holding the perimeter who were left behind. And they were all three absolutely definitive in their own interpretation: that’s what it is, that’s what it means.
《敦克爾克》電影拍攝工作照，右下是諾蘭
以上內容選自豆瓣閱讀英文電子書 Dunkirk: The History Behind the Major Motion Picture，由外文編輯陳VV摘選編譯。
DunkirkThe History Behind the Major Motion Picture
by Joshua Levine
限時特價：￥93.16 —》￥15.46
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影片開始的湯米，本打算上廁所，但不得不忙於逃跑
JL = Joshua Levine
CN = Christopher Nolan
JL: A regular (or irregular) occurrence that often caused problems. Some veterans will set aside their pride and tell you how they went to the toilet. But another told me vehemently that nobody had eaten anything for days, so there was absolutely no need for anybody to do so.
CN: A lot of what I got from the conversations with those amazing people was confidence that things that we were intending to do were supported by people’s experience. The chap bringing water to Dunkirk, which meant getting off the boat and then not being able to get back on the same boat. And also with that chap who, although he wasn’t a civilian, he’d come over from England to supply water – one of the things that fascinates me is the mechanics. This is why Tommy is trying to go to the loo at the beginning, because those things are interesting; the logistical things. Where are you going to get food from? Water?
豆瓣閱讀：沙灘上的泡沫很壯觀，這是刻意營造的視覺效果嗎？
萊文：南森（電影的美術指導）記得有一天，泡沫出現在了沙灘上。“就像是《日瓦戈醫生》或者類似的電影場景，這些人踏著泡沫走了過來。”抓住這些無法預料的時刻，是拍電影很重要的一部分。
南森（美術指導）：這就是我們想展現敦克爾克故事的方式。整個事件就是一場見機行事，一場有組織的混亂。那麼多情況在同時發生，那麼多彼此獨立的事件，沙灘上有那麼多人，而每個人都有自己眼中不同的敦克爾克。就是這麼一場事件！電影是要讓觀眾通過視覺的方式投入其中，而不是坐在其外觀看。諾蘭的腦中一直有這些想法，而我就是要來幫他把這些想法全部視覺化——這就是我前六個月的工作。
電影美術在沙灘上的泡沫上下了很大功夫
JL: Nathan remembers that one day, foam suddenly appeared on the beach. ‘It was like Doctor Zhivago or something, these guys walking through this foam.’ Utilising such unforeseen moments was all part of making the film.
Nathan: To us, this was how we wanted to tell the Dunkirk stories. The event itself was all about improvisation, organised chaos. There were so many different things happening, so many individual events, there are as many versions of Dunkirk as there were men on the beach – it was such an event! The film is all about being thrown into this event visually, not sitting outside it. Chris has these concepts in his mind, then I come in and just help him visualise the whole thing – that’s my job in the first six months.
豆瓣閱讀：這是一部戰爭片，但為什麼片中始終沒有出現敵人？
諾蘭：敦克爾克的故事不是一個關於勝利的故事，這不是一場戰役，這是一次撤退。所以我不覺得它是一個戰爭片，我把它看做一個求生的故事。因此片中沒有出現德國人，而且整部電影完全是從如何險中求生的視角拍攝的，而不是著眼於事件中的戰略權術。
萊文：面目不清的敵人才會是你想像中最深的夢魘，才會真的嚇壞你。這部電影幾乎可以算是個驚悚片，類似心理驚悚片這樣的？
萊文：諾蘭認為，沙灘上的士兵和敵人是沒有直接接觸的，他想把這在片中展現出來。
尼祿（電影助理導演）：這也是戰爭中的真實體驗。我們和老兵們聊過後發現，他們其實沒有見過敵人。一方面，當有人朝你射擊，你不會抬起頭盯著他看！你只會躲進洞裡藏好。這是種很恐怖的經歷。從另一方面說，我認為展現死亡就夠了，死亡，還有求生——這種最簡單直接的努力。
萊文：對於諾蘭來說，不讓敵人露面，還可以讓電影中的事件不再和地緣政治相關——而是成為了一個跨越時空的人類求生的故事。士兵其實並不真的明白自己在經歷什麼，而觀眾也不明白，這樣恐懼對他們來說就是一樣的。
諾蘭：如果你一直在拍德國人，德國將軍在房間裡討論戰略什麼的，你就掀開了面紗。觀眾知道的就比電影中的士兵多了。事實上，士兵們在水裡站成一排只是因為他們看到別人也這麼做，而不是因為他們知道有船來了。我認為這才是最精彩的，也是最可怕的。
CN: The story is that it’s not a victory, it’s not a battle. It’s an evacuation. So I don’t see it as a war film. I see it as a survival story. That’s why we don’t see the Germans in the film and why it’s approached from the point of view of the pure mechanics of survival rather than the politics of the event.
JL: This faceless enemy which is the nightmare of your imagination, it’s whatever terrifies you. And the film is almost a horror film, or a psychological horror film, or something like that?
JL: Chris understood that there was no personal contact between the soldiers on the beach and the enemy, and he wanted to reflect this in the film.
Nilo Otero: That is the way war is experienced. When you talk to old soldiers – they didn’t see the enemy. For one thing, when somebody’s shooting at you, you don’t stick your head up and look! You get in a hole and you stay there. It’s a frightening experience. I think that revelation of mortality is really what the picture’s about. That, and the simple effort to avoid dying.
JL: For Chris, making the threat faceless frees the event from its geopolitical ramifications – it becomes a timeless story of human survival. The soldiers cannot understand their own predicament, and the audience experiences the same horror.
CN: If you’re continually showing the Germans as Germans and generals in rooms talking about strategy, you are lifting the veil. The audience would then be more informed than the soldiers. People standing in lines in the water because they see other people doing it, not because they know there is a boat coming. I think that is fascinating and frightening.
豆瓣閱讀：有一個鏡頭是，他們在沙灘上看到另一個士兵在向海的深處走去，他是在做什麼？
萊文：現實中，很多人自殺了。他們走向水裡，然後就真的這樣做了……他們精疲力盡，無法再振作。這件事我始終揮之不去。
萊文：這件事也是電影中那個場景的來源，給電影帶來了如此令人震撼的一幕。很多士兵都表示確實看到了這一幕。“他們被巨大的壓力壓垮了，沒有誰能幫他們。”
萊文：也有一些例外，人們發現有些人其實是一直遊了下去。在近海的一艘救生船上，有人發現一名士兵正在向英格蘭遊去，而且攜帶著大部分武器。看到救生船，士兵大聲求助。但是船長拒絕了，因為折返會讓船上的每個人都面臨危險。這名士兵只能聽天由命了。
諾蘭：當我看著電影中這個人走到水裡的場景，我其實不知道他在幹什麼，他是想自殺？還是覺得自己可以遊過去？不過我之所以不知道，是因為我當時還問了跟我們講這個故事的士兵，“他是不是想自殺？”士兵說他不知道。他只是看到了這個畫面。
萊文：你說這個人他自己又真的知道自己在幹什麼嗎？
諾蘭：說真的，我不知道。
面對著大海的士兵們
JL: So many of them committed suicide. They walked into the water. And they just did it . . . They were exhausted and demoralised. It’s with me now for ever.
JL: This story painted such a striking image that it served as some inspiration for a scene in the film. And it is a story confirmed by others. ‘They were under terrific strain, and one couldn’t do anything for them.’
JL: Sometimes these men were seen swimming far out to sea. On board a lifeboat offshore, troops spotted a fellow soldier swimming towards England with most of his heavy gear still on. Seeing the lifeboat, the soldier started shouting for help. But the skipper refused. Turning back, he said, would have risked the lives of everyone on board. The soldier was left to his fate.
CN: When I look at the scene where they watch the guy walk into the water, I don’t know what that guy’s doing, whether he’s killing himself or whether he thinks he can actually swim out. But the reason I don’t know is because I think I even asked him [the veteran] ‘Was he killing himself?’ and he didn’t have an answer. This was a direct thing he had seen.
JL: Did the man himself even know what he was doing?
CN: I don’t know. Exactly.
豆瓣閱讀：小船們齊刷刷出現的一幕讓人熱淚盈眶，在真實的歷史中，船員都是什麼人？
萊文：埃爾文號很有代表性。退休的海軍上尉阿齊·布坎南響應號召，來到薩克福的一個造船廠。他成為了機動遊艇埃爾文號的船長，而且有了兩名船員，一名是退休的漁夫，另一名是一位航海短篇小說作家。
不過官方一直吞吞吐吐不給他們指派任務，因為覺得他們的船太慢，船員又缺乏經驗。布坎南和船員很沮喪，不過最終他們還是出發了。
雖然路上引擎壞了一陣子，埃爾文號還是在週一一早抵達了防波堤。當時敦克爾克滯留的大多數士兵是法國人，一個人用法語問他“船可以裝多少人？”他知道對方問的是什麼，但他不會用法語說25，只會說30，所以他就回答“30人！”就這樣，他的小船超載了。
布坎南本想著可以在回去的路上往其他船上挪幾個人，但是他的船太慢了，其他船早就開遠了。而且遠離大部隊，他們也不知道已經排雷的航道在哪裡。但是他們的船吃水只有三英尺六英寸，水位又低，所以覺得不太可能觸雷。他們最後載著25個法國人和8個英國人成功抵達，小小的埃爾文號也完成了自己的使命。
喬治的身上有很多真實的船員的影子，他們非常年輕，毫無航海經驗，但義無反顧踏上了征途
JL: In answer, retired lieutenant commander Archie Buchanan showed up at a Suffolk boatyard, where he was given command of the motor yacht Elvin and a crew comprising a retired fisherman and an author of maritime short stories.
According to the authorities, Elvin was too slow to make the trip, and her crew too inexperienced to be trusted. By now, Buchanan and his crew were so frustrated with the treatment they were receiving that they set off anyway.
Despite a brief engine failure during the journey, Elvin came alongside the mole early on Monday morning. By this time, the majority of soldiers remaining in Dunkirk were French, and a poilu called out, ‘Combien de soldats?’
Buchanan understood what the soldier was asking. How many men could come on board? And while he did not know the French word for twenty-five, he did know the word for thirty. ‘Trente!’ he shouted. Elvin duly filled up with too many soldiers.
Buchanan was hoping to transfer the soldiers to another ship on the way home, but Elvin was moving so slowly that all the other ships pulled away from her. ‘We had no idea where the swept channel was,’ Buchanan remembers, ‘but as we drew only three feet six inches and it was not low water we didn’t think that there was much danger from mines.’ Arriving safely back in Ramsgate with twenty-five French and eight British soldiers on board, it can be said with confidence that Elvin had done her duty.
豆瓣閱讀：電影裡的角色都只是想方設法自保，沒有任何“英雄主義的光環”，而且最後覺得自己當了逃兵很羞愧，真實的人物也是這麼看自己的嗎？
萊文：我記得有一個人說，“那種情況下你也只能顧得上擔心自己。”
諾蘭：對，在我看來他是咱們交談過的最有意思的人之一。他的話裡透露的意思是他經歷的這些事他自己是不覺得光榮的，但是他很肯定普通人遇到這種情況都會這樣。給我感覺他的意思不是他做錯了或者這件事有什麼特別之處，而是，我們就不要再談它了 ，就讓它過去吧。對我來說，亞曆克斯、湯米和吉布森（電影中的三個主角士兵）之間的種種關係就是這樣的含義。我們沒有想對任何人做評判。但是這讓我感到有一扇窗戶打開了，通向人們各自深埋心中一直秘而不談的過往經歷。
亞曆克斯、湯米和吉布森
JL: I remember one said, ‘You were only worried about yourself.’
CN: Yes. I think he was one of the most interesting people to talk to. What he implied to us was that he’d gone through a set of experiences of which he was not proud, but which he firmly felt were in the norm of that situation for the people that were there. I felt that he wasn’t in any way saying he had done anything wrong or different, but that there were things which shouldn’t be talked about, which were best left there. And for me the whole relationship between Alex and Tommy and Gibson was that moment. It’s not meant to be judgemental of people. I felt that there was a window which opened up on to the privacy of that subjective experience.
豆瓣閱讀：但是他們回到英國後受到了英雄般的禮遇，這是一種藝術加工，還是真實的情況？
萊文：是真實的。大多數英國士兵都覺得自己遭受了嚴重失敗，覺得自己愧對祖國。但是等待他們的是一場大驚喜。
安東尼（親歷士兵）回憶說他本來正忙著自己的事，但是突然有一個陌生人往他手裡塞錢。“小夥子們，幹得好！”當上尉吉伯特的火車開過，女性志願服務隊的人喊道。士兵的車廂堆滿了從車窗送進來的桔子和香煙。還有人抬頭看到大樓側面粉刷著“歡迎敦克爾克的英雄們！”
民眾對於大撤退的態度，既不是故作善意，也不是被人強迫。其實就是在這個時刻松了口氣，是一種很自然的表露。因為朋友們和親人們都安然無恙，而戰爭還會繼續下去。
當然邱吉爾也對這種情緒的注入起了很大作用。在對國會講話時說，他承認撤退不可能迎來勝利，但是撤退卻取得了“營救的奇跡”。
JL: The vast majority of returning British troops understood that they had suffered a terrible defeat. Many felt that they had shamed their country. But a surprise was in store for those who felt this way.
Anthony Rhodes was minding his own business when a complete stranger pressed money into his hand. ‘Well done, you lot! Jolly good job!’ shouted members of the Women’s Voluntary Service as Captain Gilbert White’s train passed by. Oranges and cigarettes were shoved through the carriage window at Private William Ridley. At one point he looked up to see ‘Welcome to the Dunkirk Heroes’ painted on the side of a building.
Yet the public reaction to the evacuation, was neither contrived nor imposed. It was a spontaneous demonstration of relief. Friends and relatives were safe, and the war was going to continue.
This was the mood that Winston Churchill tapped into so effectively when, speaking to the House of Commons, he admitted that wars might not be won by evacuations, but that ‘a miracle of deliverance’ had been achieved.
戰士們在家鄉受到了英雄的禮遇
豆瓣閱讀：在親歷敦克爾克大撤退的士兵看來，什麼是“敦克爾克精神”？
諾蘭：我覺得當你（指萊文）問他們如何理解“敦克爾克精神”的時候很有信息量，因為他們每個人的理解都和別人不一樣。我記得有三個很有代表性的理解。一個是說那些小船代表了敦克爾克精神。另一個是說，我不太記得具體措辭了，但就是他覺得“敦克爾克精神”什麼的都是扯淡。而我們採訪的最後一個士兵，他認為最後留下駐守的人是具有“敦克爾克精神”的。他們每個人都對自己的理解非常肯定：這就是我的理解，這就是它的意義。
CN: I think it was very informative asking as you did what their interpretation of the Dunkirk spirit was, because there were such different interpretations. Three very distinct interpretations, as I remember. One was the little ships representing the idea of the Dunkirk spirit. Another was, I can’t remember the words he used, but he basically said it was complete bullshit. And then the last chap we were talking to, he related it to the people holding the perimeter who were left behind. And they were all three absolutely definitive in their own interpretation: that’s what it is, that’s what it means.
《敦克爾克》電影拍攝工作照，右下是諾蘭
以上內容選自豆瓣閱讀英文電子書 Dunkirk: The History Behind the Major Motion Picture，由外文編輯陳VV摘選編譯。
DunkirkThe History Behind the Major Motion Picture
by Joshua Levine
限時特價：￥93.16 —》￥15.46
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